## Wednesday, May 25, 2011

### Back to Quarks

Let us look at Dave's pretty new applet for the Koide masses. Focus on the red and blue triangles. Begin with the phase slider in the right hand position of $\pi /2$. The upright red triangle, which is inscribed at the midpoints of the downwards blue triangle, is labeled such that the pseudo tau mass is at the natural charged lepton scale and the charm mass is at the natural quark scale (Dave, this condition might refine the quark mass predictions). All other masses are fixed by the geometry, where we note that the blue bisector of length $2 \sqrt{2}$ trisects the right angle formed by the red bisector and the black radial reference.

Now rotate the red triangle about the black circle by sliding the phase bar leftwards until the total charged lepton scale reaches the natural scale, and the total quark scale reaches the natural scale, where the blue bisector always trisects the charged lepton phase. This point is reached at the phase $2/9$, at the leftmost point on the phase slider. At this phase, all real world charged lepton and quark masses are obtained. The bottom quarks on the green triangle are obtained using the opposite trisection. Thanks, Dave!

1. Observe that, at the phase $\pi /2$, the three up quark masses come in the ratios

$(1/48)$:$1$:$(24/2)$

2. Doh. It looks better as $(1/24)$:$2$:$24$.

3. And recall the collineation of mass triplets at the 2/9 phase. Oh, Dave, the comment on the new scale condition must therefore mean allowing for small adjustments to the 2/9, as we have previously observed. That's all I meant.

So there is a strong hint that fractional charge is specified by the phase assignments (ie. trisection) as we noted in earlier discussions on the Bilson-Thompson braid diagrams (including the mirror neutrinos).

4. Happy to see you back.I have been thinking of how everything were settled, and indeed there are much talk of your area now. Funny how community can throw away good people.

I don't understand so much, but it is interesting and I learn. I think you are very, very angry now? We need your harsh temper:)

5. I found a better, less contrived way to relate the quarks to the leptons. It's shown in the new version of the applet (same link).
Also, I made it a litle more precise, as suggested.

Dave

6. Dave, I have been looking at the applet. I am trying to impose yet another scale condition on your rotation so that there are essentially no parameters remaining (bar an arbitrary choice of unit).

7. For some reason I have not been able to see what sounds like an important paper. Guess I will eventually see it.

Thanks, Kea, I actually had Kea theory update withdraw the last few weeks? seemed like it.

Hmmm fractional charge is just another way to say the same thing I suspect.

A better way to relate things, wow and dave
I like the 137 after your nick.

hmmmmmm 1/120 : 2^4 ? : 120 136? but would fine adjustments mean a deeper theory still?

The PeSla (Philosopher really)

8. I found that the bottom quarks might be using a different rotational basis, around circle with center Q. The angle formed by P-Q-Bottom (named V) is always:
Lepton_angle * 1.3333...

Weird stuff, but fascinating.

Dave

9. WOW, check out what happens at pi radians!

10. Aloha! Seeing your postings is always a pleasure. At least we are only half an ocean apart.

11. Half an ocean and quite a few degrees in temperature.

12. Nice Dave, but the remaining mystery is why the scales have the ratios that they do, namely roughly $2$ and $36$ for the down/lepton and up/lepton scales resp.

13. Kea,
I added the Neutrinos & AntiNeutrinos the applet. I scaled the neutrinos by m3^2-m2^2=.00232 eV^2, which gives .00965 eV as the neutrino scale, which works for the AntiNeutrinos, too, and amazingly, gives m3^2-m2^2=.00316 ev^2, (vs .00336 from MINOS!!)

14. Yes, we know about MINOS, Dave. Graham D and I have been blogging and writing about it for a year now, with zero response. Boggles the mind that so many billions of people can care so little about physics, doesn't it?

15. Hmmmm...

313.85637)*(1+1/3)^2=557.9669329 MeV

could be the Down Quark Scale?

I've already pointed out above that the ANGLE ratio between the Bottom and Tau is also 1+1/3, when the Bottom's rotation center is the offset circle.

Dave

16. Don't know, Dave.

17. Since applying factor of 1.333... to both terms inside the Down-type formula is the same as shifting the quark circle's center and increasing it's radius, I created a NEW applet...

http://home.comcast.net/~davelook/Quark%20Files/LeptoQuark_slider_REVISED.html

Now we can use the same MeV scale for Ch. Leptons and 1/3 Ch Quarks. The 2/3 quark GeV scale changes accordingly.

Dave

18. Dave, that looks ugly. With the shifted centre you have ruined the Koide rule and introduced new parameters, so the advantage of the scale means little, especially since it currently has no physical justification.

19. Is Dave still around? There are news on the quark sector. It happens that the s quark has the negative square root. It is possible to find it if one fixes the masses of top and bottom, solves for the charm (as discovered early this year by some people in Germany) and then again taking bottom and charm and solving for strange. The sequence becomes 172.9 GeV, 4.19 GeV, --> 1.356 Gev, ---> 92 MeV.

Now comes the surprise. Do you remember that (1.777+0.105+0.000511)/6 is 0.313 GeV?

Well, now we have
(4.19 + 1.35600 + 0.092) / 6 = 0.939 GeV.

Of course, you can still be worried by the phase. Strangely, it is also three times the phase of the charged leptons.

20. Fantastic, Alejandro! (It took me a while to hunt down this comment, after approving it without reading the post title, lol). I must write a post on this. Do you have links? I read so widely that I often miss stuff of interest.

For the reader: Alejandro's $0.939$ GeV is the proton mass, arising as three times the dynamical quark mass, which initially came from the canonical $313.8$ MeV charged lepton Koide scale.

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